Wednesday, April 01, 2015

Separation of Church and State

Here is why separation of Church and State is a not only a good idea but a necessary concept for Freedom. Most people think that Constitutional separation of Church and State was designed to make sure that the government could not mandate a participation in a Religion.  The idea being that Americans would be free to practice any Religion in any way that they choose or not participate at all if that is their desire.
Some groups think that the government is limiting their Freedom of Religion these days. For them nothing short of acknowledgment that America was founded on the Principles of one Christian religion would be good enough. They believe the American government should be run on the principles of Christianity. However, Christians can't even agree on what those principles would be.   So with names like "Religious Freedom Act" they are trying to make secular laws that conform to a singluar religious way of thinking. These laws are nothing but the attempt to leigslate their own interpretation of judgement.  That very law would restrict my freedom as an American if it differes from my belief.

The main reason I believe the Founding Fathers designed a separation of Church and State in the constitution was to protect the people from the rule of Religion. In order to form a more perfect union the writers of the Constitution realized that Religious states and Church run governments were toxic to real freedom. After centuries of watching Church leaders dominate governments and Kings claiming to be divine , the Founding Fathers decided to divide the idea of what is Church and what is State. The only way to insure complete feedom was to keep the government out of the Church. It is the perfect two way street, Government can't dominate chuches.... but by the same Constitutional mandate the Church can not run the government.  
Why a Church, particularly a Christian one, would claim they have a right to discriminate and be judgmental toward any other human flies in the face of the supposed Jesus ethic that they claim to live by.  Where in the Bible does Jesus condem homosexuality? When did Jesus preach that life begins at conception? The leaders of his day even condemed Jesus for his practice of associating with "sinners, tax collectors, prostitutes and lepers". Where is the story of Jesus casting out the demon of "Gayness" from a person in the throng?  
Passing laws like the Indianna Freedom of Religion Act have nothing to do with Freedom or Religion. These are attempts to combine Church and State through the back door.  Organized religion is trying to legislate their own personal brand of Dogma.
Keeping the Government out of the Church is important.... but keeping the Church out of Government is equally important to Freedom.  
What absolutely IS in the Bible is Jesus talking about a Roman coin... "Render that which is Ceasars up to Ceasar and that which is God's to God". That is a clear and perfect statement of Separation of Church and State.
As you were.


P. Grecian said...

Once again, you've hit it out of the park.
I am more than just proud to call you my friend.

Bob Conrad said...

I second what Phil said.

Mary Watts said...

Typo alert in your title. And "separation of church and state" was never ever anywhere in the drafting of the Constitution or the original document. It was in correspondence Jefferson had in a letter with another person - just as you and I are correcponding now. The concept was to keep the government out of religion because at the time Christians fled Europe the reformation was taking place. Study Martin Luther. Pick up a copy of "America's God and Country: Encyclopedia of Quotations" by Federer. You might learn something about 1776 that you didn't know.

Mary Watts said...

If you want to know why all these lgbt groups are attacking the religious freedom bills all you have to do is understand their end game, which is to force everyone to accept their lifestyle and to silence anyone who disagrees with them. These laws were written to protect people from the targeting the lgbt community has been doing to Christian business owners in order to force their lifestyle on people. What these people will not tell you is that the business owners have no problem serving lgbt customers on a day to day basis, it's the ceremonies that are objectionable to God these business owners can not take part in and for their moral objections they are targeted for lawsuits which aim to destroy their business and to send a message agree or we will destroy your livelihood. This is how these groups have gotten as powerful as they are, through intimidation, bullying, lying, and distorting the truth. This has always been their way of doing things and they don't like the fact that there are those of us who are actually exposing their lies and educating people on the facts and when presented with legitimate facts most folks are saying NO the the lgbt agenda. We need to keep this momentum going by educating our friends and neighbors to the truth and expose the lies of these people. Let people hear the truth and decide or themselves!!


Mary. Being an entertainer and married to a dancer I have as many gay friends as straight. Never have I heard them express any hidden Gay Agenda. All they want is the same Freedom of expression that I enjoy. They have never tried to "convert me" to homosexuality. The only ones who do try to convert me to another life style are well meaning but misinformed Christians.
With the discrimination they face and the difficulty in just being who they are as gay or lesbian humans... I don't know why anyone would choose that path for themselves.

Mary Watts said...

Christians have always faced discrimination and difficulty, too. The highways and byways of Jesus' time were lined with crosses - thousands of them - on which hung the bodies of Christians. Jesus was not the only one crucified during those times. Christians were literally fed to lions in the Coliseum. Christians fled to the Americas, and Christians are persecuted (and beheaded) today. Life is tough all around. My husband has worked in hospitals in cardiology for 30 years. Hospitals are full of gays and lesbians and blacks - both as patients and as staff members. He has zero problem working with them. We both judge people by their hearts and minds, not orientation or religion. He and I are just people, too.

Mary Watts said...

The conventional wisdom has the separation of church and state meaning that the church should stay out of politics, when in fact it is the state that should stay out of the church - as the father's intended. And the First Amendment - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." - goes to what I was saying before. Those who came to America were fleeing from the religions established and/or support by the European governments, i.e. Italy's Roman Catholic, Spain's Catholics, England's Church of England. Those coming to America wanted a religion based on the Bible (again, study Martin Luther) and not the whims of a monarcy. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... " (the remainder speaks to freedom of speech) says NOTHING about separation of church and state in the manner that most people try to use that phrase today. Separation of church and state is NOT a Constitutional principle. Consider these quotes from John Adams:
John Adams - President of the United States of America, First Vice President, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Signer of the Bill of Rights, and Signer of First Ammendment

The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.
- John Adams

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.
- John Adams

The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.
- John Adams

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
- John Adams

I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.
- John Adams

The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.
- John Adams

[The Fourth of July] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.
- John Adams

As the safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and the blessing of Almighty God, and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to Him.
- John Adams


Mary. It is obvious that John Adams was a Christian. I am not sure what that has to do with the principel of separation of church and state.